Wonderful ! I hope the fines go up even higher than 135 k !!
Using one's religion to discriminate isn't lawful . Sorry. If it were, then anyone can discriminate against anyone they wish and use their own "religious beliefs" to do it.
I can make up my own religion right now, have a few followers and say I will not serve bigoted priests and the minority of bigoted Catholics who follow him. If we allowed religious beliefs to trump being civil and lawful , there would be chaos in this country.
If one chooses to run a business that serves the public and one's customers use public roads, sidewalks, lighting, parking, etc to get there , then one better serve the public without discriminating against any human being who walks in for service. That's how it works in America. If you don't like it move to another country.
Churches will be taxed very soon. Churches/priests/ministers. etc will also be accused and very possibly prosecuted for hate speech just as other civilized countries like Canada !
But if you know that marriage can only actually take place between a man and a woman, you can be discriminated against? So, in reality, you DON'T think everyone should be served
You "know that marriage can only actually take place between a man and a woman" ? You don't "know" it at all. You just believe it. A belief doesn't necessarily = "know".
Your religion interprets 6 verses in the Bible about homosexuality negatively, other Christian religions positively , as we recently saw with the Episcopal Church and their decision to bless and marry same sex couples.
No matter what my opinions of you may be, or what my religion teaches me about people like you, I must follow the LAW if you come into my place of business and treat you just like anyone else. I would never discriminate against you because of your bigotry. I would respect you and gladly serve you with a smile. That's what makes us a civilized society and that's what makes out country so great !
Fortunately the LAW settles the argument and ALL religions , no exceptions, need to follow the LAW no matter what their beliefs about homosexuality may be.
PS...I doubt highly that Jesus would want to discriminate against gay couples like you do either. Your cruelty and bigotry is so contrary to what we know of Him. You have such a mean streak, so vindictive. No wonder the under 30's are turning away from God....they see your behavior and they're repulsed. Few people want to be part of a religion that discriminates like you do, which is why the majority of Catholics (60% and counting ) don't agree with you.
Well, thankfully, for the time being, the LAW still says that we have freedom of religion in this country. And yes, what an easy way to disengage from dialogue - just say I'm mean and not worry about having to have a conversation
As for the Episcopal Church, do you think it is any surprise to me? When you break away from the Church that Christ founded on Peter, of course madness will happen. I'm not surprised at all.
Would you say that in person to an Episcopal priest , or just here on your blog? His answer to you would be interesting.
No one is saying you're not free to follow your religion or express your beliefs, but you're not free to open a business and discriminate against anyone because of your religious beliefs. Simple , huh?
If not discriminating against gays bothers you so much maybe you can ask to be moved to the Vatican ? Ask your Bishop. I bet he can work it out for you and you can live the life you dream of living , no gays ! Well, at least no out of the closet gays. Not sure, but I bet you can discriminate against gays there all you want ? Imagine ! I'll miss you , but if it will make you happy then I'll suffer to see you go . CIAO !
Fun fact: Total fertility rate for self-described "very liberals" is in the vicinity of 1.1 -- that's lower than lowest-low fertility rate. Your side is headed for population collapse. My side (religious traditionalists generally -- including traddy Catholics, ultra-orthodox Jews, Mormons, etc.) has a total fertility rate of well over double that. Personnel is policy, and against the prospect of people like me having 60+ grandkids each, people like you having one designer baby at age 42 won't be enough to turn the tide.
Enjoy your time in the sun, kid. We've waited out worse than you.
Ah, yes...Religious freedom obviously means to enforce personal religious beliefs through civil law within secular society to prevent and/or burden other people from exercising THEIR religious freedom. Poor dear, are people actually forcing you to make sense and follow the law? That must seem like *SILENCING*! How dare people not tolerate discrimination! I mean, you clearly asserted the cheap get-out-of-consequences free card by coopting basic material goods and services as religious, sacred artifacts. Someone needs a history in the reformation it seems. Tell us, was charging people insane amounts of money for indulgences mentally and theologically sound? Was translating the bible into common language to make it accessible for the people an affront to YOUR religious liberty because they began to question corrupt, invented religious concepts? I agree, when you break away from Christ's Church there is madness.
Are you going to bother to be consistent in anything, or is this your dogmatic pulpit were you can spout off nonsense then claim “persecution” when others disagree? Gotta love the new spoiled, overly privileged modern day "saints". "Madness will happen" indeed!
Yes, the sale of indulgences was Church doctrine...oh no wait...it was a couple of men who were (shockingly) tempted by the fame they could achieve through religion (which you will no doubt accuse me of, so I'll save you the air)
The translation of the Bible...yes...keeping the peasants down...oh no wait...we compiled the Bible as the Catholic Church so why would we compile it and then have to hide it from people...that makes no sense whatsoever
Thanks for the history lesson. I'll assume what you mean by "a couple of men" actually means Pope Leo X. Same transparency as saying that Catholics compiled the Bible for the people (as translated by priests since they were the only ones who read Latin, how convenient). Got it. Since you're the history expert will you please explain why you’re complaining about the reformation that brought about freedom of religion while simultaneously demanding religious freedom? Oh, that's right, you don't really believe in religious freedom, just freedom to demand recognition of YOUR religion in secular society.
"Tell us, was charging people insane amounts of money for indulgences mentally and theologically sound" "......translating the bible......they began to question corrupt, invented religious concepts"
Not to mention the long list of others....yet the Catholic Church STILL claims infallibility and expects people to accept it without question.
Not for nothing over 90% of Catholics practice birth control anyway and over 60% support same sex marriage. They don't listen to these supposedly celibate loud mouthed clowns, they follow their own conscience with God and happily live their lives.
"oh no wait...it was a couple of men who were (shockingly) tempted by the fame they could achieve through religion"
The Catholic Church is STILL charging money for favors. Walk into a Catholic Church , especially the larger ones , and look at all the candles . Those candles are purchased by the Church and lit by the faithful for the purpose of "intentions". AH HAH gotchya...still selling heavenly favors ! A "couple of men" ???
The Church doesn't specifically say how long someone would end up in Purgatory, or how much time said candle would shave off of that time (good business move to continue making money indefinitely) so the Catholic Churches, shrines, etc, keep selling them FOREVER, some at 10 bucks or more a light , in exchange for heavenly favors.
Elderly Catholics who lost loved ones 50 years ago or more , for example, purchase untold amounts of candles month after month , year after year after year... hummmmm, just "two men"?
While selling "indulgences" may be (at least visibly) erased from view, the Church is still committing the same sort of hoax , by other just as dishonorable means.
oh no wait...Let's not forget (shockingly) that in the old days the Church took a valuable animal from the poorest of the poor who couldn't afford to give money to pay for indulgences.
Hey Father, why don't you just pray with faith that the court changes its mind and reverses that decision? Remember, as I've said before; 4 places in the gospels where Jesus said God will grand your prayer requests doing whatever you ask for!
Wonderful ! I hope the fines go up even higher than 135 k !!
ReplyDeleteUsing one's religion to discriminate isn't lawful . Sorry. If it were, then anyone can discriminate against anyone they wish and use their own "religious beliefs" to do it.
I can make up my own religion right now, have a few followers and say I will not serve bigoted priests and the minority of bigoted Catholics who follow him. If we allowed religious beliefs to trump being civil and lawful , there would be chaos in this country.
If one chooses to run a business that serves the public and one's customers use public roads, sidewalks, lighting, parking, etc to get there , then one better serve the public without discriminating against any human being who walks in for service. That's how it works in America. If you don't like it move to another country.
Churches will be taxed very soon. Churches/priests/ministers. etc will also be accused and very possibly prosecuted for hate speech just as other civilized countries like Canada !
So get ready ...here comes the LAW .
Oh and never forget that ....LOVE WINS !! :)
But if you know that marriage can only actually take place between a man and a woman, you can be discriminated against? So, in reality, you DON'T think everyone should be served
DeleteYou "know that marriage can only actually take place between a man and a woman" ? You don't "know" it at all. You just believe it. A belief doesn't necessarily = "know".
DeleteYour religion interprets 6 verses in the Bible about homosexuality negatively, other Christian religions positively , as we recently saw with the Episcopal Church and their decision to bless and marry same sex couples.
No matter what my opinions of you may be, or what my religion teaches me about people like you, I must follow the LAW if you come into my place of business and treat you just like anyone else. I would never discriminate against you because of your bigotry. I would respect you and gladly serve you with a smile. That's what makes us a civilized society and that's what makes out country so great !
Fortunately the LAW settles the argument and ALL religions , no exceptions, need to follow the LAW no matter what their beliefs about homosexuality may be.
PS...I doubt highly that Jesus would want to discriminate against gay couples like you do either. Your cruelty and bigotry is so contrary to what we know of Him. You have such a mean streak, so vindictive. No wonder the under 30's are turning away from God....they see your behavior and they're repulsed. Few people want to be part of a religion that discriminates like you do, which is why the majority of Catholics (60% and counting ) don't agree with you.
Well, thankfully, for the time being, the LAW still says that we have freedom of religion in this country. And yes, what an easy way to disengage from dialogue - just say I'm mean and not worry about having to have a conversation
DeleteAs for the Episcopal Church, do you think it is any surprise to me? When you break away from the Church that Christ founded on Peter, of course madness will happen. I'm not surprised at all.
Would you say that in person to an Episcopal priest , or just here on your blog? His answer to you would be interesting.
DeleteNo one is saying you're not free to follow your religion or express your beliefs, but you're not free to open a business and discriminate against anyone because of your religious beliefs. Simple , huh?
If not discriminating against gays bothers you so much maybe you can ask to be moved to the Vatican ? Ask your Bishop. I bet he can work it out for you and you can live the life you dream of living , no gays ! Well, at least no out of the closet gays. Not sure, but I bet you can discriminate against gays there all you want ? Imagine ! I'll miss you , but if it will make you happy then I'll suffer to see you go . CIAO !
Very well put Father!
DeleteFun fact: Total fertility rate for self-described "very liberals" is in the vicinity of 1.1 -- that's lower than lowest-low fertility rate. Your side is headed for population collapse. My side (religious traditionalists generally -- including traddy Catholics, ultra-orthodox Jews, Mormons, etc.) has a total fertility rate of well over double that. Personnel is policy, and against the prospect of people like me having 60+ grandkids each, people like you having one designer baby at age 42 won't be enough to turn the tide.
DeleteEnjoy your time in the sun, kid. We've waited out worse than you.
Ah, yes...Religious freedom obviously means to enforce personal religious beliefs through civil law within secular society to prevent and/or burden other people from exercising THEIR religious freedom. Poor dear, are people actually forcing you to make sense and follow the law? That must seem like *SILENCING*! How dare people not tolerate discrimination! I mean, you clearly asserted the cheap get-out-of-consequences free card by coopting basic material goods and services as religious, sacred artifacts. Someone needs a history in the reformation it seems. Tell us, was charging people insane amounts of money for indulgences mentally and theologically sound? Was translating the bible into common language to make it accessible for the people an affront to YOUR religious liberty because they began to question corrupt, invented religious concepts? I agree, when you break away from Christ's Church there is madness.
ReplyDeleteAre you going to bother to be consistent in anything, or is this your dogmatic pulpit were you can spout off nonsense then claim “persecution” when others disagree? Gotta love the new spoiled, overly privileged modern day "saints". "Madness will happen" indeed!
rage alert!
DeleteYes, the sale of indulgences was Church doctrine...oh no wait...it was a couple of men who were (shockingly) tempted by the fame they could achieve through religion (which you will no doubt accuse me of, so I'll save you the air)
The translation of the Bible...yes...keeping the peasants down...oh no wait...we compiled the Bible as the Catholic Church so why would we compile it and then have to hide it from people...that makes no sense whatsoever
Perhaps you could use the history lesson?
Thanks for the history lesson. I'll assume what you mean by "a couple of men" actually means Pope Leo X. Same transparency as saying that Catholics compiled the Bible for the people (as translated by priests since they were the only ones who read Latin, how convenient). Got it. Since you're the history expert will you please explain why you’re complaining about the reformation that brought about freedom of religion while simultaneously demanding religious freedom? Oh, that's right, you don't really believe in religious freedom, just freedom to demand recognition of YOUR religion in secular society.
Delete"Tell us, was charging people insane amounts of money for indulgences mentally and theologically sound" "......translating the bible......they began to question corrupt, invented religious concepts"
DeleteNot to mention the long list of others....yet the Catholic Church STILL claims infallibility and expects people to accept it without question.
Not for nothing over 90% of Catholics practice birth control anyway and over 60% support same sex marriage. They don't listen to these supposedly celibate loud mouthed clowns, they follow their own conscience with God and happily live their lives.
"oh no wait...it was a couple of men who were (shockingly) tempted by the fame they could achieve through religion"
DeleteThe Catholic Church is STILL charging money for favors. Walk into a Catholic Church , especially the larger ones , and look at all the candles . Those candles are purchased by the Church and lit by the faithful for the purpose of "intentions". AH HAH gotchya...still selling heavenly favors ! A "couple of men" ???
The Church doesn't specifically say how long someone would end up in Purgatory, or how much time said candle would shave off of that time (good business move to continue making money indefinitely) so the Catholic Churches, shrines, etc, keep selling them FOREVER, some at 10 bucks or more a light , in exchange for heavenly favors.
Elderly Catholics who lost loved ones 50 years ago or more , for example, purchase untold amounts of candles month after month , year after year after year... hummmmm, just "two men"?
While selling "indulgences" may be (at least visibly) erased from view, the Church is still committing the same sort of hoax , by other just as dishonorable means.
oh no wait...Let's not forget (shockingly) that in the old days the Church took a valuable animal from the poorest of the poor who couldn't afford to give money to pay for indulgences.
Perhaps YOU need a history lesson?
Hey Father, why don't you just pray with faith that the court changes its mind and reverses that decision? Remember, as I've said before; 4 places in the gospels where Jesus said God will grand your prayer requests doing whatever you ask for!
DeleteIs there a gofundme for this couple and this bakery?
ReplyDelete