The report doesn't mention whether the band director was terminated or merely didn't have his contract renewed. In any case, if it is true that he was up front about his homosexuality and the president said no problem well, badly done on the president's part. This is why the new contracts at the Archdiocese of Cincinnati are a good idea; all parties up front know exactly what is expected of them.
Eventually there won't be anymore Catholic schools left. New and experienced teachers will not want to teach in a school that has a year to year contract or where you can be canned at a whim. Plus I'm sure the retirement benefits aren't as great as those in the public sector. No Catholic teachers will equal no more Catholic schools.
I think that it is a little much describing the contracts as facilitating being "canned on a whim". The whole point of the AoC contract is EXACTLY so that people won't get fired on a whim. Avoiding the things on the contract is actually not that much of a burden. Catholic schools are on the wane, I don't deny. But that is largely because we've maintained an untenable state of de facto schism in the Chuch out of a rather cowardly truthophobia. So I suspect that many Catholic schools will fail, but they won't disappear entirely; and the ones that do survive will actually be Catholic. "Many are called, few are chosen."
Wait...did I miss something? A teacher was legally fired based on the fact that he is gay and seeking marriage, and this is persecution of the Church? He was transparent about his sexual orientation and that he was in a relationship, so his firing was disingenuous. It does not even say he is suing, just that there is going to be a rally on his behalf. No, the teacher is the one being persecuted here, not the Church.
In Islam, they kill people who don't follow their teachings. In Catholicism, we ask that people who teach at our schools and work in our Church follow our teachings, and not cause public scandal by openly and publicly violating the most grave of Church teachings.
nope...I'm saying why don't we hear anyone coming after Islam for the way it is practiced, but when Catholics want their schools to be Catholic, people yell and scream and whip themselves into a frenzy. You'd think people would concomitantly fight against both "injustices" as surely murder is worse than firing a teacher, but yet you all only rail against the Church and not Islam.
Fr. Hollowell- Couple problems... 1. There are billions of Muslims and most don't execute based on their beliefs. You are being offensively stereotypical. 2. The ones that do execute are being called out for it. Read more mainstream news. People are being more and more critical of extreme interpretations of Islam.
The Catholic Church is not being singled out. In fact, what you call persecution I call free speech. And let's put this whining in perspective, this firing was legal. The Catholic Church has had high profile firings of remarried divorcées, or single pregnant women and none of those people had any recourse that they would have in the public market because the Catholic Church is exempt from anti discrimination laws. What more could you possibly want, a theocracy?
I didn't read over the entire article, but from what I could tell through a perusal, this sums up the Church's stance on free speech: http://www.aleteia.org/en/religion/news/what-do-catholics-believe-about-free-speech-93002
I found the article interesting, but based on the explanation of free speech in the article, it seems that the demonstration and news report was not "hate speech", but rather free speech.
"Just because speech is sinful doesn’t necessarily mean that it should be outlawed. St. Thomas Aquinas argues that the civil law should not attempt to repress all sinful behavior, because the law is made for a great many people, not all of whom will be perfect in virtue. To impose, therefore, strict conditions of virtue on every citizen would overburden those still on the way toward moral maturity (Summa theologiae, I-II, question 96, article 2)."
Based on the above quote would gay civil marriage apply? It strikes me that not providing civil protections, rights, and tax breaks to gay couples would be a overburdern same sex families, especially those with children. I am not saying the Catholic Church should be required to recognize those families, or that Catholic schools should be forced to hire those they deem as morally inferior. I am saying that it is impossible to recreate civil marriage rights through private contract, so denying couples those benefits causes undue harm.
I am saying that the fact that thinking human beings are upset that the Catholic Church upholds one of its key teachings is frightening, I'm not saying people can't speak their frustration with the Catholic Church.
You can tell me I have nothing to be frightened about, because you have the right to free speech, but I have the right to be frightened
I'm not labeling my fear persecution. I'm saying the persecution is coming (and has already arrived in other instances), and this particular story is a sign that it is coming more thoroughly.
The report doesn't mention whether the band director was terminated or merely didn't have his contract renewed. In any case, if it is true that he was up front about his homosexuality and the president said no problem well, badly done on the president's part. This is why the new contracts at the Archdiocese of Cincinnati are a good idea; all parties up front know exactly what is expected of them.
ReplyDeleteEventually there won't be anymore Catholic schools left. New and experienced teachers will not want to teach in a school that has a year to year contract or where you can be canned at a whim. Plus I'm sure the retirement benefits aren't as great as those in the public sector. No Catholic teachers will equal no more Catholic schools.
DeleteI think that it is a little much describing the contracts as facilitating being "canned on a whim". The whole point of the AoC contract is EXACTLY so that people won't get fired on a whim. Avoiding the things on the contract is actually not that much of a burden. Catholic schools are on the wane, I don't deny. But that is largely because we've maintained an untenable state of de facto schism in the Chuch out of a rather cowardly truthophobia. So I suspect that many Catholic schools will fail, but they won't disappear entirely; and the ones that do survive will actually be Catholic. "Many are called, few are chosen."
DeleteBetter to have fewer Catholic Schools than many bad ones.
DeleteWait...did I miss something? A teacher was legally fired based on the fact that he is gay and seeking marriage, and this is persecution of the Church? He was transparent about his sexual orientation and that he was in a relationship, so his firing was disingenuous. It does not even say he is suing, just that there is going to be a rally on his behalf. No, the teacher is the one being persecuted here, not the Church.
ReplyDeleteIn Islam, they kill people who don't follow their teachings. In Catholicism, we ask that people who teach at our schools and work in our Church follow our teachings, and not cause public scandal by openly and publicly violating the most grave of Church teachings.
DeleteWell, aren't you sweet! I'll make sure to tell Mr. Dollar and his supporters that they should just shut up and feel lucky he isn't being executed.
DeleteSarcasm
DeleteIt may be witty, it may be clever
But closer to God? Never!
nope...I'm saying why don't we hear anyone coming after Islam for the way it is practiced, but when Catholics want their schools to be Catholic, people yell and scream and whip themselves into a frenzy. You'd think people would concomitantly fight against both "injustices" as surely murder is worse than firing a teacher, but yet you all only rail against the Church and not Islam.
DeleteScott- the same can be said about rhyming.
DeleteFr. Hollowell- Couple problems...
Delete1. There are billions of Muslims and most don't execute based on their beliefs. You are being offensively stereotypical.
2. The ones that do execute are being called out for it. Read more mainstream news. People are being more and more critical of extreme interpretations of Islam.
The Catholic Church is not being singled out. In fact, what you call persecution I call free speech. And let's put this whining in perspective, this firing was legal. The Catholic Church has had high profile firings of remarried divorcées, or single pregnant women and none of those people had any recourse that they would have in the public market because the Catholic Church is exempt from anti discrimination laws. What more could you possibly want, a theocracy?
You calling it "free speech" is what scares me
DeleteScott- the same can be said about rhyming.
DeleteNo. No it can't.
And what would you consider to be free speech Fr. Hollowell?
DeleteDo you believe in hate speech?
DeleteNo, I asked you first. What do you consider to be "FREE SPEECH"?
DeleteI didn't read over the entire article, but from what I could tell through a perusal, this sums up the Church's stance on free speech: http://www.aleteia.org/en/religion/news/what-do-catholics-believe-about-free-speech-93002
DeleteI found the article interesting, but based on the explanation of free speech in the article, it seems that the demonstration and news report was not "hate speech", but rather free speech.
Delete"Just because speech is sinful doesn’t necessarily mean that it should be outlawed. St. Thomas Aquinas argues that the civil law should not attempt to repress all sinful behavior, because the law is made for a great many people, not all of whom will be perfect in virtue. To impose, therefore, strict conditions of virtue on every citizen would overburden those still on the way toward moral maturity (Summa theologiae, I-II, question 96, article 2)."
Based on the above quote would gay civil marriage apply? It strikes me that not providing civil protections, rights, and tax breaks to gay couples would be a overburdern same sex families, especially those with children. I am not saying the Catholic Church should be required to recognize those families, or that Catholic schools should be forced to hire those they deem as morally inferior. I am saying that it is impossible to recreate civil marriage rights through private contract, so denying couples those benefits causes undue harm.
I am saying that the fact that thinking human beings are upset that the Catholic Church upholds one of its key teachings is frightening, I'm not saying people can't speak their frustration with the Catholic Church.
DeleteYou can tell me I have nothing to be frightened about, because you have the right to free speech, but I have the right to be frightened
No, the teacher disregarded the requirements of the church for teachers who teach at Catholic schools. You cannot teach what you do not live.
DeleteI understand now, but the mistake I think your making is labeling your fear "persecution". It is inflammatory and misrepresents the actions of others.
ReplyDeleteI'm not labeling my fear persecution. I'm saying the persecution is coming (and has already arrived in other instances), and this particular story is a sign that it is coming more thoroughly.
Delete