Thursday, January 30, 2014

Macklemore: An Artistic Response

19 comments:

  1. Wow! Just wow! Thanks for sharing.

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  2. All I saw was a response against gay marriage that has been pretty generalized to be the antithesis and denial of Christianity in which gay people are "violating God's law" even if they are not Christian......Where is their response to bullying, suicide, and disrespect to LGBT people?

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  3. Ok, I'll bite...How do we prevent "bullying, suicide, and disrespect" of homosexuals AND make it unambiguously clear that ALL sexual acts outside of true marriage between a man and woman are always and everywhere evil?

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    1. Romishgraffiti, ..... find a way. So you would suggest giving up and just focus on marriage instead of people? Treat people with respect. Sexual orientation in not the basis of sin. The human person should be cared for, regardless of his/her actions. One could start with stating Church teaching, but include that we are called to love and respect ALL people.

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    2. Um, here is an idea. Maybe you can stop reposting and defending songs that call gays pedophiles. It is a long outdated and solidly debunked myth only used to insight strong negative emotions against gays. I'm pretty sure that many priests don't appreciate that association, nor do gays.

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    3. No song can state a solution to every problem. This one was exactly what Fr. Hollowell said it was, an artistic response (which offers some legitimate arguments not motivated by hate)to Macklemore's song . I agree that the association with pedophilia was unnecessary and could have been replaced with a better argument. However, it is worth noticing that he didn't call homosexuals pedophiles, as was the argument in the past. Instead he, said that the gay sex and pedophilia have the same root sin, giving in to sexual desire.

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    4. These are the lyrics:

      It angers you, if I compare you to a pedophile
      Cuz' he sick right?
      And you're better how?
      You think he chose that?
      Well, prove he wasn't born that
      But, you were never a girl
      He was once nine
      So at one time in his life, it was just fine
      What makes your loss right?
      I'm not buying it
      So, put him in that trash can, you threw that bible in
      See how that cycle is?
      Nobody wants to repent of they evil
      So, we all try justifying it

      That is a direct comparison suggesting the two are related. He actually has more sympathy for the pedophile suggesting at one point in his life his feelings were acceptable! That's remarkably gross to me. It doesn't take much to figure out what he is really saying.

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    5. Actually, going over those lyrics the comparison is valid. That is, there is no argument presented by defenses of homosexual acts that is any different from those the pedophiles would use except one which is the "age of consent" and the only argument there is that it's against the law. In other words, that pedophilia is "sick" but homosexual acts are not is an unprincipled and arbitrary distinction.

      And of course the feeble doctrine of consent is weakening. Case in point: when there is a case of a priest and a post-pubescent male, it's a sex abuse crisis, if it's done by a celebrity or just about anyone outside the Church, it's just another coming-of-age story. No big deal to these people apparently.

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  4. Yeah we get it. Gay people are bad and unnatural...yawn

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    1. Yeah, we get it, you don't listen to anything that is actually being said. We get it, you don't think there's anything to discuss here, so there's no need to listen to us. We get it, the sooner you can start throwing sots like us in jail, the better. We get it.

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    2. Fr., the artist is using the most common arguments and comments against same-sex marriage. He also provides no insight into the pastoral care for LGBT people. There is a lot to discuss, although many do not want to have a civil conversation without sarcasm. Just to note, I did not post the original comment.

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    3. No one is going to jail over their religious beliefs regarding gay marriage. Settle down.

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  5. Father, please explain one thing to me:

    From a secular perspective, why is it okay for the government to deny rights to tax-paying citizens on the grounds of their sexual orientation?

    Marriage equality isn't about "redefining" what marriage means, when women were granted the right to vote it did not change what voting means or entails. When black people were granted the rights to educational integration, it didn't change what school means or how people learn.

    So how can we deny people the right to share legal benefits through marriage? Does God want them to be unequal?

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    1. Marriage does not need to be redefined in order for people to share legal benefits. We already have a system in place that lets people share legal benefits.

      But societies have an interest in establishing marriage as something integral to the society's continuation and sustenance. If you no longer consider marriage between a man and a woman to be anything special, then, even from a secular atheist point of view, society will suffer. You might find this article helpful. It is entitled "A Secular Case Against Gay Marriage": http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1082190/posts

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    2. These are the problems with the secular same sex marriage argument presented by Kolasinksi:
      1: There is no evidence that legalizing same sex marriage will lead to polygamy or incestuous marriage. Polygamy has major issues built into the arrangement that has been well documented to be harmful to society. The vast majority of polygamist arrangements tend to be one man “collecting” many women. Either the man is very rich, or there is a society with government structures built to protect men in those arrangements. Women and children simply become property in these marriages. The children become free labor and the girls are used to barter with other men, and often times there are arranged child marriages. The wives are sex objects and a means to create more children. Many teenage boys are eventually driven out because there are simply no marriage prospects. This can be seen today with the FLDS. I won’t spend much time on incest since some level of incest is legal in all 50 states and no one seems interested in stopping that despite the well-known genetic problems that may occur in children of such unions. I will say that there is a great level of harm caused when there is a power imbalance in sexual/marriage relationships such as those between a teacher and student, doctor and patient, or parents and children. That being said, I do not believe that the US will ever make incestuous marriage legal (sorry, more legal). Gay marriage, on the other hand, has not been shown to cause harm to society. In the recent prop 8 trial, lawyers could not provide any evidence that gay marriage causes harm to society.
      2: His argument that marriage is for procreative purposes only is incorrect. He states that the government only allows infertile and elderly couples to marry because it is simply too time consuming and costly to attempt to regulate these marriages considering that there are relatively few of these marriages in existence in the US. It is estimated by the CDC that 10% of people of childbearing age are infertile. That is much more than 3-5% of the population being gay. Why has so much time and effort been spent on trying to regulate and prevent a small number of marriages is beyond me. Also, gays have kids. There tens of thousands of children being raised in same sex homes. He concedes in this article that these families do deserve some recognition. His argument that children of same sex couples are negatively affected is also incorrect. Popenoe’s book, that Kolasinski mentioned, only examined the consequences of divorce, single parents, and stepfamilies on children. This is irrelevant to children being raised in stable same sex households. Yet, this irrelevant data is constantly being brought up as “evidence” against gay marriage and parenting. It is what social scientists call comparing oranges to apple slices.
      3: Civil marriage rights cannot be recreated with wills or other personal contract. There are over a 1000 of benefits being provided through marriage. Among those are tax breaks, such as employer contributions to health care of their employees and families not being considered as taxable income. This benefit was not available prior to last year to same sex couples, causing them to spend 1000s of dollars extra a year in taxes in many cases. Also, immigration rights, social security benefits, ect.

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  6. WOW. The media is pushing this 'gay thing' because more than 3.4% of Americans are gay, lesbian, or transgender. That's roughly 9 million Americans; your neighbors, co-workers, friends, and even FAMILY. I understand that as a 20 yr old female telling Christians and Catholics this, it's just going to go right over their heads, because they hear it daily. SAME LOVE - the original song, is inspiring and every time I hear it, it brings me to tears. "Some would rather die than be who they are." Do you even understand that? A 13,12 & EVEN YOUNGER Americans who are gay would rather kill themselves then live in this hateful world. LUCKILY, most young people have no religion affiliation and absolutely believe that gays deserve the right to live their life how they want AND to get married to whomever they want! Macklemore's simile to being gay and being black is, in one word TRUE. How long ago was it that blacks were not allowed to sit and eat next to a white? How long ago was it that they couldn't drink out of the same water fountain as a white? ALSO how long ago was it that they couldn't vote? Gay people are experiencing similar stigmas that blacks did before the 1960/70s. Just as with time, change was brought for black Americans, and change will come for gay Americans. No cheap 'response' that goes so LOW to compare pedophilia and down syndrome with being gay will change this. This makes me, as a young liberal woman who believes in gay marriage, sick. The next generation will surprise you and might even change your views, just wait.

    "The right wing conservatives think it's a decision and you can be cured with some treatment and religion. Man-made rewiring of a predisposition. Playing God, aw nah here we go. America the brave still fears what? We don't know. And God loves all his children, is somehow forgotten, but we paraphrase a book written thirty-five-hundred years ago. I don't know"

    OH and as someone who goes to Catholic church often, I find this very poetic.

    "When I was at church they taught me something else, if you preach hate at the service those words aren't anointed. That holy water that you soak in has been poisoned. When everyone else is more comfortable remaining voiceless, rather than fighting for humans that have had their rights stolen. I might not be the same, but that's not important. No freedom 'til we're equal, damn right I support it"

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    1. You apparently don't have any idea what the Catholic Church actually teaches on all of this. Could you sum it up for me?

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    2. Apparently I do since I mentioned that I visit a Catholic Church almost weekly : the church teaches to abstain from gay thoughts and acts.
      And Father, I don't find your hatefulness and sarcasm very Godly of you. I expected more from someone who I find inspiring and incredibly smart. I find most of what you say to be very proactive and intelligent, but after some of the things you've said on this blog I find it all very disturbing. Your jail comment was simply closed-minded, which I have come to expect from Christians and Catholics alike. It was so outrageous that I actually laughed out loud. No one is throwing anyone in jail over their views, we're in America and it's 2014!

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    3. Why would I think that your attending Mass almost weekly would give you any insight as to what the Catholic Church teaches about homosexuality? I have attended Mass since my infancy, I went to Catholic grade school for 5 years and a Catholic high school for four years. Guess how many times homosexuality has been raised in that Catholic environment - zero. The only time I've heard about homosexuality and Catholicism from the pulpit is when I heard my own homily on the subject.

      Now, let's take your analysis of what you believe the Church teaches - "abstain from gay thoughts and acts." Your right on the acts part, but "abstain from gay thoughts" is not at all what the Church teaches. In fact, in "Love and Responsibility" by Pope John Paul II (then Cardinal Karol Wojtyla, and he wrote it in the late sixties I believe) he states very clearly that to try to repress attractions that we experience ultimately only psychologically damages us. The fact that you think the Church teaches that people are supposed to "refrain from gay thoughts" highlights exactly why the Church is being crucified over this - because people think we are in the camp of the evangelical Christians, but we're not. The Catholic Church has a very important and affirming message on homosexuality, but Catholics who don't actually understand the Church's teachings, and many other people who either out of ignorance or intent to lie are spreading false understandings of the Church's teaching, are only making the problem worse. You can read the essays of people who experience same sex attraction and have ACTUALLY read and attempted to grasp the Church's message who will say that ONLY in the Church do they find a message that gives them hope and speak to their condition. See: David Morrison, Steve Gershom, Melinda Selmys, Eve Tushnet and others.

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