tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8560483615460834385.post5179618257742555378..comments2024-03-22T05:53:17.342-04:00Comments on On This Rock: Con-dumbsFather John Hollowellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12850864104003705536noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8560483615460834385.post-58655009408291089682010-12-07T08:23:02.033-05:002010-12-07T08:23:02.033-05:00what are you for then?what are you for then?Father John Hollowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12850864104003705536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8560483615460834385.post-47741690595382944042010-12-06T09:22:52.957-05:002010-12-06T09:22:52.957-05:00I am not for abstinence and against condoms. I th...I am not for abstinence and against condoms. I think a very valid pro-abstinence argument is that it eliminates one vector for the spread of AIDS. You did put forth this argument and I had no problem with it.mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01490148851931012358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8560483615460834385.post-36523939143827291322010-12-03T07:08:11.171-05:002010-12-03T07:08:11.171-05:00I ask this with all respect and seriousness - if y...I ask this with all respect and seriousness - if you are for abstinence as the solution to AIDS, and not condoms, then what argument would you make for abstinence besides the one I put forth?Father John Hollowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12850864104003705536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8560483615460834385.post-23018233380162253862010-12-02T20:29:05.029-05:002010-12-02T20:29:05.029-05:00Actually, I agree with you that when people are ac...Actually, I agree with you that when people are acting on an urge they are making a conscience decision. I don't see a dichotomy at all, rather a spectrum of decisions. Some people decide to remain abstinent through out their lives, some people only have sex within marriage, some people have sex with nearly anyone they can as long as they have a condom, and some people are...well no too choosy at all, etc. None of these imply that one you decide to have sex you have given into your urges completely and will have sex no matter what. Not true. <br /><br />I don't think that condoms are the only solution to AIDS. My apologies if it seemed as if that was my opinion. I wasn't arguing against abstinence as much as the arguments that you made against condoms.mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01490148851931012358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8560483615460834385.post-22907328039758742132010-12-01T14:48:29.436-05:002010-12-01T14:48:29.436-05:00Flower,
I see your point - you are saying that pe...Flower,<br /><br />I see your point - you are saying that perhaps some people in the condom camp think periodic abstinence is possible for people, but that condoms are still needed. <br /><br />I think there is also a false dichotomy in what you are saying in that a decision to have sex is either a) a conscious decision or b) acting on an urge. Anytime we act on an urge, we still experience ourselves as making a conscious decision. <br /><br />I see what you are saying but I still think, even with your point being granted, that saying condoms are the only solution to the AIDS crisis in Africa suggests that abstinence, on the whole, will not work - and thus there is an inherent philosophical assumption involved in that decision - even if a person doesn't think abstinence will NEVER work. <br />I turn to the Pope on this one: "Misery is not produced by people who bring up children to learn faithfulness and love, respect for life and self-restraint, but by those who try to talk us out of morality and who see man only in a mechanistic way: the condom seems to them more effective than morality, but when they think you can replace the moral dignity of man with condoms, so as to make his freedom no longer a danger to him, they they have stripped man of all dignity."Father John Hollowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12850864104003705536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8560483615460834385.post-38490945403794120782010-11-30T20:13:00.315-05:002010-11-30T20:13:00.315-05:00Father John, I totally agree that you should infor...Father John, I totally agree that you should inform those who wish to be informed about the actual teachings of the church...Catholic or not. I also agree that people who don't believe in the church's teachings are going to care too much (except possibly for former Catholics who have vestigial guilt!) if they break said teachings.<br /><br />But, I think non-Catholics would care a WHOLE HECK of a lot if a priest said that they think Africans are subhuman. That is you making a conclusion on their thoughts on condom use through the lens of your morality. You may not agree with their views on Aids prevention, but you cannot seriously believe that they think Africans are subhuman. This is analogous to people who say that "since the Pope doesn't allow condom use, he must want people to die." <br /><br />Your false dichotomy between abstinence and "never ask(ing) someone to actually abstain for any moment of their life from acting on their sexual urge" is very interesting. Could it not be possible that people are making a conscience decision to have sex versus some sort of failing to control an urge?mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01490148851931012358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8560483615460834385.post-44513449037269588952010-11-30T09:21:09.958-05:002010-11-30T09:21:09.958-05:00If they don't share the same moral views on se...If they don't share the same moral views on sex as the Church, then they aren't going to have any problem breaking the Church's teaching.<br /><br />If a person out there DOES care about the moral teachings of the Church on issues of sexuality, or like many who I see in confession, WANT to know what the Church teaches on the issue but have been left largely uninformed due to the dissenting nature or cowardice of their priest, then this post serves to elucidate the Church's teaching on the issue.Father John Hollowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12850864104003705536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8560483615460834385.post-77178532944866094382010-11-29T12:23:14.853-05:002010-11-29T12:23:14.853-05:00The thought that the only two choices are abstinen...The thought that the only two choices are abstinence and "never ask(ing) someone to actually abstain for any moment of their life from acting on their sexual urge" is a false dichotomy. <br /><br />Your point about some people believing "Africans surely could never learn to actually control themselves" is just as illogical. It assumes that all people share the same moral views on sex as you, which isn't true.mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01490148851931012358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8560483615460834385.post-12130752382692095922010-11-25T05:26:25.193-05:002010-11-25T05:26:25.193-05:00Does anybody think the Holy Father didn't know...Does anybody think the Holy Father didn't know exactly what he was doing when he framed his answer the way he did? What a "teaching moment" he has created around the world. I only pray that many more priests seize this opportunity to properly catechize the faithful and the world on the beauty of the Church's teaching regarding human sexuality and the gravely immoral nature of contraception (in whatever form).Mike Nygrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05227856816662815498noreply@blogger.com