tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8560483615460834385.post992689733772939207..comments2024-03-17T22:14:39.612-04:00Comments on On This Rock: Boehner at Catholic U = Obama at Notre Dame???Father John Hollowellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12850864104003705536noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8560483615460834385.post-60989471696650160132012-08-13T21:23:01.097-04:002012-08-13T21:23:01.097-04:00Okay, that actually helps a lot! I was thinking in...Okay, that actually helps a lot! I was thinking in the first-world frame of mind, seeing as there is always a way other than the death penalty to control them. But I do (now) see that in other less-developed countries, that the death penalty would be an acceptable form of punishment. Seeing this one option, I now can see how it isn't, in fact, intrinsically evil.Jimmy Henkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10524011557148524662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8560483615460834385.post-88710718429814758802012-08-13T08:27:15.982-04:002012-08-13T08:27:15.982-04:00Jimmy, good question! You are correct in your con...Jimmy, good question! You are correct in your concern. Let me first give you the relevant paragraph from the Catechism:<br /><br />2267 Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against an unjust aggressor."<br /><br />Important to understand what "intrinsically" means. Essentially it means "by its very nature; in and of itself." What this means is that there is NO SCENARIO where an intrinsically evil act would EVER be permitted.<br /><br />Because the Catechism says that it is permitted in certain instances, by the very definition of "intrinsic" means that capital punishment is not intrinsically evil. Again, there IS a scenario where it would be allowed.<br /><br />To your point, though, John Paul II, in Evangelium Vitae, wonders if there is hardly ever a scenario, at least in the first world, where the paragraph from the Catechism applies. He notes:<br /><br />Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitively taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically non-existent." (EV 56)<br /><br />To recap: the Catechism says it is okay in situation where we need to protect other people. JP II says, at least in the first world we have such capabilities to imprison people that we wouldn't need to execute anyone anymore for protection. <br /><br />Because that is not the case in countries with less technology, the death penalty is certainly still in play, and again, JP II isn't making a definitive statement against it in first world countries, he more asking a question of us - "do we still need it in the U.S. and Europe?"<br /><br />Your question is a good one, I hope this helps explain why the death penalty is not, in and of itself, always and everywhere consider wrong.Father John Hollowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12850864104003705536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8560483615460834385.post-49111104217778407952012-08-13T00:22:45.072-04:002012-08-13T00:22:45.072-04:00I guess I have trouble accepting that it isn't...I guess I have trouble accepting that it isn't intrinsically evil. The Catholic Church teaches, as you have posted recently, that nothing trumps the value of the human life. Jesus teaches us that the ancient doctrine of an eye for an eye is not what should be done anymore but rather we are to turn the other cheek. I don't mean that we should let murderers free, but they shouldn't be murdered. And even if it is claimed that it is for the good of the society as a whole, I've been taught the Catholic teaching is that the ends are not excuses for the means. Dropping the bomb on Hiroshima was an evil even if it led the world to a greater sense of peace. Murdering a criminal may lead society to a greater sense of peace, but it doesn't excuse the action of taking someone's life. I just have trouble accepting the Church's teaching that it isn't intrinsically evil when all of the other teachings clearly point that capital punishment is immoral.Jimmy Henkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10524011557148524662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8560483615460834385.post-28347925150810193002012-08-12T06:25:37.591-04:002012-08-12T06:25:37.591-04:00Jimmy, because the Church says it isn't intrin...Jimmy, because the Church says it isn't intrinsically evil. In order for something to be intrinsically evil, it can NEVER ever ever be done no matter what no matter the circumstance. There are times where the Church says the death penalty can be carried out, therefore it isn't intrinsically evil. Does the Church support it being carried out as often as it is in our country, absolutely not...but it isn't intrinsically evil in the mind of the ChurchFather John Hollowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12850864104003705536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8560483615460834385.post-43262877792147530492012-08-11T17:57:45.102-04:002012-08-11T17:57:45.102-04:00How is the death penalty not intrinsically evil?How is the death penalty not intrinsically evil?Jimmy Henkenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8560483615460834385.post-17858251591620255392011-10-30T15:50:46.824-04:002011-10-30T15:50:46.824-04:00THE
DEATH
PENALTY
IS
NOT
INTRINSICALLY
E...THE<br /><br />DEATH <br /><br />PENALTY <br /><br />IS <br /><br />NOT <br /><br />INTRINSICALLY<br /><br />EVILFather John Hollowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12850864104003705536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8560483615460834385.post-27576358964841649492011-10-29T20:15:41.928-04:002011-10-29T20:15:41.928-04:00John Boehner supports the death penalty. I thought...John Boehner supports the death penalty. I thought the Church held life sacred until natural death. Guess I was wrong on that account. It looks like you support life until the birth, then the John Boehners of the world can judge us and kill us. Great theology.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8560483615460834385.post-53509868092793437412011-08-08T14:39:18.675-04:002011-08-08T14:39:18.675-04:00Father Hollowell,
I understand there is a differe...Father Hollowell,<br /><br />I understand there is a difference between hatred focused at someone vs hatred of what a person does. You made that clear in the last comment, but what concerns me is the several of your posts, this one, the St Paul's in Bloomington and even the post about the children dancing at the end of mass, you can sound pretty hateful. While I understand you are making the distinction that you are disliking, hating, etc.. what the people are doing, not hating them, the hatred is what some people are only picking up on. <br /><br />Love in Christ!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8560483615460834385.post-17976114583828311872011-06-27T21:45:53.049-04:002011-06-27T21:45:53.049-04:00Ed, Yes, I have hatred for the sin that these peop...Ed, Yes, I have hatred for the sin that these people are committing when they distort Church teaching and try to confuse people about the teachings of the Church. Priests are charged to help teach the faith, and it is people like these professors who we are called to combat. I have more respect for people who are atheistic than I do for people who call themselves Catholic but (either through ignorance, malice, or both) only lead people away from the Church by spreading confusion.Father John Hollowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12850864104003705536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8560483615460834385.post-74975147827714386232011-06-18T21:35:12.143-04:002011-06-18T21:35:12.143-04:00Your comments are so full of hate towards these pr...Your comments are so full of hate towards these professors. As a priest I would have thought you would be more understanding. Priests are members of the church like everyone else. When they see themselves like that they can make a big difference. I am glad that I grew up in St. Thomas Aquanis Parish. If I had a priest like you growing up I would not be Catholic. Jesus was accepting of all people and fought for those that society put down. He fought for the poor. He was against the rich. I prefer EJ Dionne's moral compass to yours anytime. It is time for the church to act more like Christ.Ednoreply@blogger.com